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Howard Dean is right, the terror alert is based on half exaggerated truth, half lie. It's despicable to watch those Kerry people cave in again and on the defense.

Again, instead of fighting, they choose to surrender to GOP and crazy media spin doctors.
How can Kerry win if he does not believe in everything?

He does not need to support Dean's point of views, he does not need to distance himself from Dean either. He can simply say we just don't know the truth. What's wrong with Dean to point out Bush's fear-mongering politics?

It's stupid, despicable. Kerry's poll driven campaign will eventually bury him. But we shouldn't anticipate more from him, he's just a flip flopper.

After a couple of days, I can assure you some details will emerge and this crazy terror alert is just another example of Bush's fear mongering politics.

Dean is always right!!

Originally posted to torch on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 02:09 PM PDT.

Poll

Does Dean have the right to point out Bush's fear-mongering politics?

92%75 votes
7%6 votes

| 81 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Hmm (none)
    What Kerry said to Hemmer.
    •  Isn't it about time... (4.00)
      For some merciful moderator to delete this dickweed troll once and for all?

      I'm all for using troll posts as a springboard for discussions and all, but Torch is just a virtual chalk outline waiting to happen, if you ask me.

      Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

      by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:18:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Honestly (4.00)
        I hate right wingers pretending to be Dean supporters trying to sow division.
      •  O'Connor Thanksgiving Shrimp Mousse (none)

        Make one day ahead, remove from refrigerator 1 hour before serving
        1. and 1/2 envelopes Knox gelatin
        2. /2 cup cold water
        3. can hot, undiluted tomato soup
        4. large package cream cheese
        5. cup mayonnaise
        6. cans small, cleaned shrimp, drained (approximately 9 ounces)
        7. /2 cup finely chopped celery and green onions
        dash salt and pepper

        Soak gelatin in the cold water
        Add hot tomato soup, cream cheese, mayonnaise, shrimp, salt and pepper
        When cool, add chopped celery and onions
        Stir and pour into jello mold (preferably shaped like a fish)

        Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

        by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:22:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm a big fan of yours normally... (none)
          ...but that sounds really vile.

          "The longest journey begins with the first step. And that first step is electing John Kerry." -- Howard Dean, 3/25/04

          by Go Vegetarian on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:29:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's fabulous. (none)
            But it's best if served with Triscuits.

            It's not to be eaten alone -- it's a dip-ish mousse -- some people prefer Ritz, but I really think Triscuits are the way to go.

            Seriously -- it may sound vile, but it's an exquisite seafood dip.

            Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

            by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:31:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  i agree (none)
            yuck.  shrimp, mayo and gelatin?  three things i dont particularly like on their own that sound horid together.

            Check out PPipes 42 progressive email lists in one place.

            by juls on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:31:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Trust me. (none)
              It's to die for.

              The one time my grandmother announced it would not be served at Thanksgiving because it was too much work for too few people, those of us who were to be in attendance announced we would boycott Thanksgiving if she didn't make it.

              Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

              by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:36:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  i have always (none)
                had an aversion to shrimp since the one time when i was a small child and my parents forced me to eat it.  i promptly threw up and they always would make me a special dinner when the rest of the family ate shrimp.

                Check out PPipes 42 progressive email lists in one place.

                by juls on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:39:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Someone... (none)
                  once made it with crab. They say it turned out wonderfully, but I wouldn't know: I thought it sacrilege and refused.

                  Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

                  by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:42:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  My late grandmother.... (none)
                    ...had a crab dip.

                    Pint of sour cream, can of crabmeat, package of onion soup mix, two teaspoons red horseradish, dash of chili pepper.

                    This stuff is to die for.

                    Since Gram's gone, I make it now for all the major family holidays.

                    It's the horseradish that clinches it. Really.

                    "If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child."--Barack Obama

                    by ChurchofBruce on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:58:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  me too! (none)
                  My crazy uncle once forced me and my sister to try shrimp cocktail at a restaurant.  I hated it so much.  It tasted like cold dead fingers to me.  I was so disgusted I couldn't swallow it.   I just sat there for 15 minutes with it in my mouth.  Finally I was led to the bathroom where I was able to spit it out.  Never again!

                  The Brennan Center Report: Because New York State deserves democracy too!

                  by NYCO on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:44:07 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  lol (none)
                    that reminds me of my little brother and brocoli.  he hated it so much that one day i went to the bathroom shortly after he did during dinner and found a large piece of brocoli floating in the toilet.

                    Check out PPipes 42 progressive email lists in one place.

                    by juls on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:47:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Is it a religious thing? (none)
                  Why do you (and god) hate shrimp?

                  A liberal is a conservative who's been through treatment. -- Garrison Keillor

                  by ogre on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:10:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  More to the point: (none)
                    Why do grandmothers hate America?

                    Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

                    by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:20:25 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  lol (none)
                    well actually, i am of jewish heritage, but we never kept kosher. thus the dirty scavengers appeared from time to time on our plates.  really g*d does hate shrimp, or at least thats whats some jews say.  

                    Check out PPipes 42 progressive email lists in one place.

                    by juls on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:21:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well, FINE! (none)
                      He doesn't have to eat them.

                      But as I tell the kids, it's unacceptable behavior and obnoxious to make rude remarks about things that other people eat.

                      If you don't care for it, or don't want to try it, you make polite remarks, don't take any... and lay low.

                      Degustibus non disputandum

                      Now, my mother could only eat them really fresh.  Something when they start to go (long before anyone else might notice it) really caused a nasty reaction... and off to the emergency room.

                      Maybe G*d is allergic to shellfish.

                      Hmmm.  My brother-in-law is allergic to fireflies--the result of too much contact with dead, freeze-dried (and powdered) fireflies, working in a lab in grad school.  I wonder, maybe something about shellfish... during Creation... too much contact...?

                      A liberal is a conservative who's been through treatment. -- Garrison Keillor

                      by ogre on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 10:16:57 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Yuck, No (none)
              You can actually make all sorts of seafood mousses using variations on this recipe.  I wouldn't use prepared mayonnaise because the taste of it, frankly, makes me ill. :)  Creative use of eggs, olive oil, etc., etc. will do the trick, though.

              Give to the Daily KOS 8!

              by Aaron Gillies on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:37:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I'm with you on this one (none)
            I remember Mom making a tomato aspic for Christmas one year, and having incredibly hurt feelings because it was absolutely revolting to us kids. I like shrimp, I like hot tomato soup, but this just sounds horrible.

            That chicken recipe downthread, though, I might have to check out!

            This is a cowboy. Bush is a goat roper.

            by Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:21:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Spanish Tortilla (none)
          Not the same thing as a Mexican tortilla.

          One you make this, you will never want to eat an omelette again.  This can be eaten for breakfast, lunch or dinner.

          Ingredients:

          • 3 or 4 large red potatoes
          • 6 eggs
          • 1 large onion
          • Olive oil
          • Salt and pepper to taste
          Instructions:
          1.  Preheat oven to 300 degrees.
          2.  Peel and dice potatoes.  Boil in salted water for twenty minutes.  Water has to be salted.  Really.
          3.  Dice onion and saute in a cast iron pan until translucent.  Use a 12-inch pan and a very generous amount of olive oil.
          4.  When potatoes are done, drain and add to the onions.  Stir and let cook down until potatoes have absorbed any excess oil.
          5.  Crack eggs into large boil and whisk with a fork until yolk and whites are combined.
          6.  Pour eggs over potatoes and onions and stir until mixed.  Salt and pepper to taste.
          7.  Bake in oven at 300 degrees for 35-40 minutes.  The tortilla should become a solid mass that is easily sliceable into wedges.
          I usually let the dish cool, slice and then arrange the wedges on a dish.  Any leftovers can be set into the refrigerator and eaten as a snack later.

          Give to the Daily KOS 8!

          by Aaron Gillies on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:35:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What? (none)
            No Hatch Green Chiles?

            "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

            by johnmorris on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:40:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Go For It (none)
              Go for it. :)

              I actually use the pickled ají, both the red and the green, that are available here in Jersey City at the grocery store.  But I think once you stray from the simple potato/egg/onion mixture, it becomes less and less authentic.

              Give to the Daily KOS 8!

              by Aaron Gillies on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:42:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  ooo (none)
              green chillies.  my recent visit to NM brought me a new found love for those tasty green things.  mouth watering, must go make dinner.

              Check out PPipes 42 progressive email lists in one place.

              by juls on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:43:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Take (none)
                6, really cheap pork chops, bone in and
                Brown in a large pot

                chop up an onion and some garlic
                roast and peel 6 large green chiles
                chop two bunches of cilantro
                throw it all in with the pork chops
                and add just a whole lot of water
                boil until you can chew the bones (usually about 12 or 14 hours, add water several times)
                If its not hot enough throw in a jalapeno

                serve with hot tortillas and cheese
                keep a hankerchief in your left hand while you eat
                you gonna sweat

                "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

                by johnmorris on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:56:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Mmm..... (none)
            Makes me think of my favorite sweet potato quesadillas. I think they originally came from one of the Moosewood cookbooks. A friend made them from me after some other friend made them for her, so I don't have the original recipe, and don't really have measurements. But they are sooooo good.

            two (or more) sweet potatoes (the yellowish, drier ones, not yams)
            onion (ratio is 2 potatoes to 1 onion

            1. -4 cloves garlic
            2. -3 tablespoons cumin
            oregano, salt, and pepper to taste
            1/4 cup or so orange juice
            tortillas (your preference, I like flour)
            Monterey Jack cheese
            cilantro, sour cream, and salsa to garnish

            Chop the onions in a medium dice, and saute them over medium heat until soft. While the onions are cooking, peel and grate the sweet potatoes (a food processor comes in real handy) and finely chop (or press) the garlic. When the onions are about soft, throw in the garlic and cook a minute or two more. Then add the grated sweet potatoes. You might need to add more oil, depending on how dry they are. Stir pretty often, as the sugar tends to stick to the pan. When it's starting to soften, deglaze with the orange juice--but not too much because it can be a gooey mess--and add the spices/herbs. Hold back on the orange juice if it seems wet enough. Cook it until the sweet potato isn't crunchy any more.

            Then fry 'em up like regular quesadillas, this mixture and the cheese inside. If you really like cilantro, put some leaves inside. Yummy!!!!

            This is a cowboy. Bush is a goat roper.

            by Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:05:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Leftovers? (none)
            Why would there be leftovers?
        •  Ultrageek's Atkins Shrimp Scampi (none)
          Saute 1 pound of shrimp with garlic and olive oil.  In the meantime, grab a sauce pan.  Combine half a stick of butter, 1/4 cup white wine, the juice of one warm lemon, tarragon and parsley.

          When the shrimp is nearly done, add sauce and toss together.  Simmer for about 2 minutes.  Serve with parmasean cheese.

      •  Correct Maryscott (4.00)
        The game is up with this person trying to mimic a liberal, or sow division so real people who care about the site get conned into flaming each other.

        I've about had it with it, and like so many others that have come before and have been dealt with, it's only a matter of time for it to meet a similar fate.  Or it'll cease posting only to reemerge and antagonize again some time later in the future.

  •  I don't agree (3.80)
    I don't have any problem with the way Kerry is responding.  

    The Brennan Center Report: Because New York State deserves democracy too!

    by NYCO on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:11:57 PM PDT

    •  yes (3.75)
      Kerry himself has responded correctly (to paraphrase, "I don't agree with Howard, but he has every right to speak his mind and I'm certainly going to keep him as part of my campaign").

      Unfortunately, Dean chose perhaps the least politiczed of the many Ridge-alerts to attack. The last couple - especially the one a few weeks ago where the color level wasn't raised, and there didn't seem to be any new information to justify the alert - were better targets for criticism. In fact, I think I remember Kerry half-heartedly saying that those other alerts might have had more to do with politics than real intelligence.

      Still, 2 points that we should defend Dean on:

      1. He did not say that the Administration was making these alerts up from thin air. He has just questioned their timing and how much of the timing is due to political concerns. That is still a valid question.
      2. Ridge clearly politicized this issue yesterday in his statement when he said something like "this new intelligence is due to the President's leadership in the war on terror." Under no circumstances was that called for.
      As usual, Dean is thinking the right way, but he is unable to verbalize his thoughts in an effective manner. He seems to always tempt the media to make the mundane controversial.
      •  Controversies (4.00)
        Dean's comments are an inconvenience to Kerry.  They are also an opportunity.  I feel fairly confident that Kerry will, at the right time, be able to capitalize on the many good questions that Dean has raised with his uncalculated remarks.  For now, I wouldn't be surprised if he's supremely pissed at Dean and that James Carville is drawing up a contract on Dean's political life right this very moment.

        You see, this is one thing I have come to like about Kerry.  Let's not forget that it was Kerry who reached out to Dean after the primaries.  You know, Kerry deserves credit for that.  It takes two to broker a peace.  Maybe Kerry thought it was about the grassroots money, I don't know.  Maybe he doesn't realize that Dean made it safe for Kerry to say a lot of things (albeit in Kerry's own way).  But we wouldn't have a unified party if Kerry also didn't have an interest in reaching out to Dean.  They're said to get along.  Nobody can say that Dean isn't loyal to the cause.

        Dean says things that can clear the table in favor of the Democrats, like no other Democrat can.  The problem is that Dean is unscripted.  That's also the positive part.  So if Kerry can handle that, absorb that and then express it in his own more effective way -- well, I guess we will find out if Kerry is capable of doing that, evaluating the discussion that is aroused by Dean's shocking impieties, and then get a sense of where people are really at.  We'll find out where the American people really stand.  And if they stand in a place where they will not accept anyone asking questions about terror alerts, then honestly, I don't believe they are the kind of people who will elect someone like John Kerry.  Because I honestly don't believe Kerry is all that different from Dean on major issues.  (And certainly not on the conduct of domestic security.)

        The war is a lot more controversial an issue than Tom Ridge's silly terror alerts.

        The Brennan Center Report: Because New York State deserves democracy too!

        by NYCO on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:39:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  great analysis (none)
          I agree wholeheartedly. The metaphor I continue to use for Dean is that he is the rabbit in the greyhound race. He's out in front on every issue, and makes it safe for the rest of the party to eventually pass through the same ground.

          So much of Kerry's (and the party's) rhetoric at the convention wasn't stolen from the GOP (aside from some catchphrases), it was stolen from Dean. Dean was an imperfect candidate, but his role in the party is still an important one. And I know his outspokenness is just as much as asset as it is a liablity. I just wish he could be both outspoken and *well-*spoken at the same time. Because if he was, he would be ten times more effective. But maybe that's just too much to ask for in a politician these days. And so we're stuck with the Dean-Kerry symbiosis.

        •  Have to disagree (2.50)
          Ye, of little faith...

          Carville...could only dream he had the ability to take Dean out.

          This week in Boston...our old friend Al From painted a HUGE target sign on Dean's back. From was quoted in at an event to have said that no one should give Dean any credit for anything whatsoever.

          Under this banner of "unity" they are trying to once and for all rid the party of Dean.

          NYCO you have said it yourself many times...Dean is NOT stupid nor is he a novice. He is a harbinger...and as usual this latest episode will ring crystal clear in 4 to 6 weeks and as usual Kerry will reap the benefits of Dean having stated the obvious that others were too afraid to say.

          Dean is not going anywhere...this hellaballu is propogated more by the Democratic leadership than by the GOP.

          Lieberman and his beloved DLC are hanging on by the skin of their teeth...I don't even think that Clinton can save them. They all are woefully outdated.  Nor do politicians need DLC money anymore.

          Kerry's team is quietly marginalizing Clinton's people who have not taken loyalty oaths to Kerry, which is a shame because Clinton picked the cream of the Democratic crop. Dean refused to kiss Clinton's ring and therefore has a lot of cred with the Kerry people.  The main problem between Kerry and Dean is that Kerry is a politician and Dean is a LEADER.

          Clinton is an opportunist and showed where he stood by releasing his book at a time to take away as much limeight from Kerry as possible. Dean has shown from the day that he ended his campaign that he intended to be a team player.

          Dean not only is not going anywhere but he is actually strengthening his position amongst the party base constituencies.

          I was shocked to hear him say that one of his Dean Dozen's a black lesbian in Missouri who is running against two traditional Black candidates was recently endorsed by a conservative black leading pol in Missouri...even Dean was shocked and said to him "YOU DID...WHY??"

          Dean just wanted to  stimuate debate and make sure progressive issues are always on the table.

          This pol answered that he would have been foolish not to embrace this candidate since she has a fully integrated campaign (like Obama) and that she was stimulating the base in Missouri...sounds like the DNC/DLC could take lessons from this man.

          In Boston I saw that Dean was doing VERY well (you will never read about it in the media) and that he is truly happy...this makes it all the easier to support Kerry/Edwards who I still do not like nor can I find a reason to support them other than they are not Bush/Cheney.

          The best way I can describe it is that : Dean supporters and endorsers are on loan to Kerry. In fact, in Boston, I saw a lot of "Kerry People" taking a second look at Dean... now that they have their "electable" candidate is was safe for them to venture out and see for themselves what this "Dean thing"  was all about...from my point of view they liked what they saw...

          "Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear"

          by Genf on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 10:15:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Dean raises a good issue (none)
        I like the fact that Dean has enough name ID that when he says this the media has to pick it up. But Kerry shouldn't go as far as Dean. That's silly. We need guys like Dean to lay the cover fire, so Kerry can come charging in when the enemy is on their heels and defensive.

        I do think the way to go is for Dems to announce that they want to see the "evidence" or at least have a bipartisan committee to review the criteria regarding when and what the people are told about terrorist threats. There's a constant stream of overheard threats being made at any given time so its a judgement call which ones they believe. How do we know we can trust them to use the right criteria when they choose which threats to publicize?

  •  Dean and Kerry (3.87)
    are working together brilliantly, whether coordinated or not. It's a classic principal-surrogate, good cop-bad cop movie.

    The people have the power / The power to dream / To rule / To wrestle the world from fools -Patti Smith

    by Septic Tank on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:13:41 PM PDT

  •  Howard has every right... (3.50)
    and Kerry has every right to be sensible and distance himself from what is, essentially, a non-story.

    Of course, maybe if we make enough noise about it, people like Drudge can pick it up and run with it, making Kerry's "refusal to defend Howard Dean's every public utterance" a big ole scandal.

    Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

    by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:13:46 PM PDT

    •  I don't think (none)
      he actually distanced himself, he just sort of innoculated himself from the inevitable, shocked, "are you accusing the president????" follow up. Dean's opinion is probably the majority opinion or Jay Leno wouldn't be making jokes about terror alerts but the SCLM has a compulsion to convert the truth into a controversy.

      "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

      by johnmorris on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:46:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  aoeu (3.92)
    Gimme a T!
    Gimme a R!
    Gimme a O!
    Gimme a L!
    Gimme a L!

    What does that spell?

    TROLL!!!

    turtles know allies
    and Nader is hardly one
    "Gonad Politics"
    aoeu

    by TealVeal on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:14:03 PM PDT

    •  Darn. (none)
      Beat me to it. I think mine's cleverer, though. ( eck...more clever. I blame Bush for my loss of linguistic ability.)

      Let's play a game! Where does troll live? Post guesses here.

      A revolution on the Earth is a lot like a revolution of the Earth - they both usually end up right back where they started from.

      by Jaiwithani on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:19:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kerry briefed (3.66)
    Kerry's getting briefed on these matters, so maybe he doesn't need to rely on Dean for his info.

    As far as Howard always being right, that's a pretty good track record if true.

  •  Look (4.00)
    at Torch's previous diaries and comments. For those who don't already know, a quick sTROLL around dKos would be enlightening.

    A revolution on the Earth is a lot like a revolution of the Earth - they both usually end up right back where they started from.

    by Jaiwithani on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:15:47 PM PDT

  •  Kerry is right (3.50)
    What the fuck does Dean know?

    He has NO FUCKING IDEA whether it's true or not.

    Neither do you.

    Neither does Kerry.

    Here's the proper critique: "These matters ought to be dealt with on a professional level, and not announced by political appointees. I'm concerned that the public's lack of trust in this administration will cause it to dismiss threats like these as politically motivated."

    Much slicker, and far more accurate.

  •  I love Dean. (4.00)
    That said, shut up, troll.

    November 3, 2004 is just around the corner.

    by Passing Shot on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:17:12 PM PDT

  •  With Democratic friends like you... (4.00)
    who needs Rethuglican enemies!

    Dean is not always right!  And, while I agree with him on this issue, John Kerry has every right to disagree with him.

    Like it or not Dean is viewed as a liberal loose cannon.  That perception exists despite overwhelming evidence indicating a very good record of politicl moderation.

    Given the conventional impression of Dean, I see every reason for Kerry to distance himself from Dean if necessary.

    "It is time to transform conversations that matter into actions that make a difference." - Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

    by Dmitri in San Diego on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:18:29 PM PDT

    •  Don't be fooled (4.00)
      This is a right wing troll pretending to be a Dean supporter to fu*k with us.

      This is no Dean supporter

      •  Yep (4.00)
        Anyone claiming "Dean is always right" is trying to sow dissension in our ranks.  Hey, I'm the biggest supporter of Dean around, but no, he is not always right.  

        Let Kerry be Kerry and Dean be Dean.  It's the classic right uppercut, left overhand combo that's going to KO the Chimpster.

        This Deaniac is going to do some work for Kerry and other Dem candidates tonight.  Let's all do the same in honor of the troll.  Remember, with absentee ballots, the election starts in just 60 days.

        •  That is not exactly what I am saying (4.00)
          I am saying that this right wing troll uses Dean and pretends to be a Dean supporter to attack Kerry and get Dean supporters and Kerry supporters to fight with each other.

          And, the Kerry supporters that come in to the thread and bash Dean are feeding into the troll. Just as any Dean supporters that do the same to Kerry. Don't feed the right wing troll.

      •  absolutely (4.00)
        This is a right wing troll pretending to be a Dean supporter to fu*k with us.

        He's not the only one either. He's just a particularly inept and stupid one.

        "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

        by colleen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:33:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Wrong.... (3.83)
    Let Dean continue to pound on this point and let Kerry say exactly what he said today.

    That's the reason we have surrogates.  We don't need Kerry in a battle on this topic.  

    Dean can beat up on the Bush admin all day long on this one.  It would be great to hear his point seconded by another Dem voice such as Wes Clark or someone with some intelligence cred.

  •  CONTEXT, people, CONTEXT..... (3.66)
    Governor Dean spoke about this immediately after Wolf-in-Republican's-clothes Blitzer announced the "terror alert" as Breaking News.  Dean simply stated that all the prior "terror alerts" were meaningless, vague threats that came immediately after bad polling news for GWB.  Dean did not say that this was the case in this one, but simply said that this mis-Administration is in danger of becoming the "boy who cried wolf (but not blitzer)."
    •  Orange Chicken Stir Fry (none)
           1/2 c  Orange juice
             2 tb Sesame oil; divided
             2 tb Soy sauce
             1 tb Dry sherry
             2 ts Grated fresh ginger
             1 ts Grated orange peel
             1    Garlic clove; minced
         1 1/2 lb Chicken breast
                  -- (boneless, skinless)
                  -- cut into strips
             3 c  Mixed fresh vegetables
                  - such as green bell pepper,
                  - red bell pepper, snow peas
                  - carrots, green onions,
                  - mushrooms, and/or onions
             1 tb Cornstarch
           1/2 c  Unsalted cashew bits
                  -OR- cashew halves
             3 c  Hot cooked rice

      Combine orange juice, 1 tablespoon soy sauce, sherry, ginger, orange peel and garlic in large glass bowl.

      Add chicken, marinate in refrigerator 1 hour.

      Drain chicken; reserve marinade.  

      Heat remaining 1 tablespoon oil in large skillet or wok over medium-high heat.  

      Add chicken; stir-fry 3 minutes or until chicken is light brown.  

      Add vegetables; stir-fry 3-5 minutes or until vegetables are crisp-tender.  

      Combine cornstarch and reserved marinade; add to skillet and stir until thickened.  

      Stir in cashews, cook 1 minute more.  

      Serve over hot rice.

      Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

      by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:34:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now (none)
        I'm gonna do this one (no sour cream) thanks for starting the recipes. go up to the tomato shrimp bisque string and check out the New Mexico Green Chile.

        "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

        by johnmorris on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:02:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm proud of them both (3.80)
    I don't know if the guy is a troll or not, but I'm glad Dean said exactly what he said and I'm glad Kerry said exactly what he said.

    I've been listening to Ed Schultz on the radio, and he applauded what Dean said. But Kerry is right not to go there.

    "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"--Paul Wellstone

    by Maureen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:31:06 PM PDT

    •  P.S. (none)
      I don't know what his source was for this, but Ed said the computer containing the information that led to this new alert was found on July 13.

      "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"--Paul Wellstone

      by Maureen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:11:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  At the Citicorp building (3.83)
    In New York today, one of the targets listed in the terror alert, Laura Bush came to tour with the Mayor.  Photo op of photo ops, no? As Dean has said, a gaffe in Washington is when someone accidently tells the truth.

    When you run for President, you should play to your base, not to swing voters--that's why Democrats lost all those elections--Gov. Howard Dean

    by sharkstooth on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:34:56 PM PDT

    •  Bingo. (4.00)
      People need to get a clue.  They really do, because this is just the intro.  Or a demo of the intro.
      Like Hunter Thompson's book that came out last year:  Kingdom of Fear.  Yup, United States of America, Kingdom of Fear.
      For decades, if not afraid of commie under the bed or encroaching lest we insert "Under god" or go to war here there and everywhere, or fear of the eternal
      "other", whether looming descending or worse yet, ascending races, immigrants, mixed races the poor the unwashed... or just the lowly criminal out to kill you in your bed.  

      America is gripped over and over in fear.  By now it is ingrained, Bush knows this.  If he wins, and he may, it will be because fear and confusion and an inability to think rationally won.
      Oh and no teaching of history, civics, languages, humanities etc. Learning poetry by memorisation when young, that teaches mental strength as well as beauty. hmm Logic, that is a big one. That too.

      It's a cartoon world run by people scarcely able to parse a grocery list. It's a pity...

      by Marisacat on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:48:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You gotta ask (4.00)
        what is everybody afraid of? Are they afraid they're going to die? Cause your gonna die. The question is how and when. The trick is to try not to die on your knees.

        "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

        by johnmorris on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:05:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  To those who saw my accidental 4 given torch (4.00)
    I meant to give him a 0, but all this talk of DPs have left my fingers a bit sticky.

    "Strength and wisdom are not opposing values" ~ The Big Dawg

    by John Campanelli on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:37:16 PM PDT

    •  heh (none)
      No need to explain John. I don't think the occasional '4' is goig to interfere with this particular person's long slow slide into another inevitable nuke. But just as a matter of information, you can easily re-rate to express your original intent or change of mind.

      "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

      by colleen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:44:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've tried to re-rate but it hasn't worked (none)
        No biggy. That particular comment is still below 1 and therefore hidden.

        "Strength and wisdom are not opposing values" ~ The Big Dawg

        by John Campanelli on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:48:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ah, that's the problem, then. (none)
          That particular comment is still below 1 and therefore hidden.

           I wasn't aware that that disallowed re-rating. Thanks.

           I seldom bother to rate torch at all. He's so obvious that folks are onto him and sometimes downrate him reflexively, not because of a specific post but, rather, because he posted at all.

          I'm far more interested in the ratings sockpuppets like emmabg who allow people who are often not very constructive to retain TU status and in the more subtle trolls and their games.

          "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

          by colleen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:59:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ah I see you noticed (none)
            emmabg 'her' as well...;-)

            It's a cartoon world run by people scarcely able to parse a grocery list. It's a pity...

            by Marisacat on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 11:49:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I noticed 'her' (none)
              emmabg 'her' as well...;-)

               some time ago. Indeed, since this thread died 'she's' been back for a ratings sweep.  pretty pathetic
              Have you noticed that the DLC tools have been ramping up their criticism of Dean and their war  on Dean supporters here over the past few days? Ronk in particular has been reduced to foaming expressions of rage and personal attacks at least once a day of late. These guys are really most curious. What do you think they want here? It's sure not dialogue and mutual understanding or

              "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

              by colleen on Tue Aug 03, 2004 at 08:56:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yesterday I suggested (none)
                he do a diary rather than daily buckshot games and pushing out threatening little ditties that we and Dean are lemmings.
                But the buckshot's been fun to watch.  And Politus/Rick in Davis showed up yesterday as well, trolling for high shrill games.... I swear, there were days when I began to think that particular on line candidate support group was all operatives of one sort or another.  Gave them a "flag" to fly under and blog to operate out of. Considering that was the last late entrance into the most cynically composed primary candidate field in my life time.

                It's like a matinee show in a small town.  I have to say it is gettin' old tho.

                It's a cartoon world run by people scarcely able to parse a grocery list. It's a pity...

                by Marisacat on Thu Aug 05, 2004 at 11:51:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  There's a new DLC ratings sockpuppet (none)
                  named jah who appears to favor RonK, petey and James. Had you noticed?

                  "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

                  by colleen on Mon Aug 16, 2004 at 08:02:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  For those of you without TU (none)
    who cannot see Torch's comments...

    it's because he got zeroed. The subsequent recipes, however, are worth acquiring TU status.

    Torch, the Troll Responsible For My Expanding Recipe Collection:

    Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

    by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 06:40:14 PM PDT

    •  trusted user? (none)
      I'm not a trusted user (or at least I don't think I am), but I was able to read Torch's diary and see the recipes. Or did he make some comment after posting the diary that got rated and erased?

      "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"--Paul Wellstone

      by Maureen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:14:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  naw you are right (none)
        all of the food talk was off of non-troll posts and thus stands.  nobody actually responded to any of torch's comments.

        Check out PPipes 42 progressive email lists in one place.

        by juls on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:18:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think you're TU (none)
        Can you rate someone with a Zero? If so, you're TU.

        The diray itself never disappears. It's Torch's comments (and, I may be wrong about this one, the replies to his comments) that disappears when he gets Zeroed.

        Check a ratings box -- if there's a zero there, you're TU.

        Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

        by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:18:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think it's the whole thread (none)
          attached to comments that go away, which is why I didn't play Whack-a-Troll on his one remaining comment up thread. I didn't want to lose your Raspberry Jello recipe. Not that I'm a big Jello fan, but all that work you did reproducing it!

          This is a cowboy. Bush is a goat roper.

          by Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:24:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No (4.00)
          No. I can rate "1" for Troll, but not "0."

          And that's OK. I'm certainly trustworthy in my loyalty to the Democrats and the Kerry-Edwards ticket, but I've only posted one diary and I don't think I've said many things that anyone would give a rating to.

          "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"--Paul Wellstone

          by Maureen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 07:36:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Here, have some of mine. (none)
            We'll get you into the hallowed halls of TU yet.

            (The only thing TU is good for, imho, is being able to see the hidden comments. And the only real reason to even have hidden comments, that I can figure, is so that desultory lurkers don't get the wrong idea if they should happen upon particularly egregious lapses in taste -- or the occasional indicator of the poster's non-human status.)

            Maryscott O'Connor -- Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

            by Maryscott OConnor on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 08:32:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks, but it's OK (4.00)
              Thanks, Maryscott. I think you're great, and I'm sure the trusted users need to do the job they do, but I'm not really eager to give anyone a 0. In fact, the only ratings I've given have been 4's.

              As for the hidden comments, I guess I just don't know what I'm missing, but I'm on overload already.

              I was refreshingly unconnected to my computer for almost two weeks in July, and I still was online for more than 100 hours (and I had to pay $8, but that's not even the part that worries me).

              I used to have a life! Now I'm afraid I've become so obsessed with this election (for good reasons, it's true) that I might have a nervous breakdown before Nov. 2.

              I do want to be a trusted member of the dKos community, but I don't need official TU status.

              "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"--Paul Wellstone

              by Maureen on Mon Aug 02, 2004 at 08:56:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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